The Gift of Tongues (Sole Proof of Salvation?)

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David	The Gift of Tongues (Sole Proof of Salvation?)		Lead	[-]
Posts: 820 11/21/08 9:25	Tags : None "For the body is not one member, but many. If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body? And if the ear shall say, Because I am not the eye, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body? If the whole body were an eye, where were the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where were the smelling?" 1 Corinthians 12:14-17 (KJV) You know what I'm tired of? I'm tired of people feeling condemned because someone tells them, "You can't be saved without the gift of tongues." While the gift of tongues is a great gift, it is not the only gift! To emphasize on this single gift as the sole means of proof of salvation is like saying the other gifts of the Holy Spirit are not as important. Not everyone will receive the same gifts of the Spirit. If everyone in the body of Christ had the same functions, then how would the body operate properly? If everyone is a mouth then who is carrying all those mouths around? If you believe for a minute that you must have the gift of tongues above all other gifts in order to be saved, then I suggest you read the entire chapter 12 of 1 Corinthians... Because what you believe is false doctrine. The number of people that this false doctrine has chased off from God is horrible. People feel condemned, and people give up because they're lied to and told that they must have the gift of tongues. All because a certain denomination skipped this chapter of the Bible (obviously.) If you feel condemned because you don't have a certain gift, then read 1 Corinthians chapter 12. If you've accepted Christ, then you have a gift you may not know what it is yet. I know what one of my gifts is, but I'm still doing some searching myself on the possible others (Because sometimes we're given more than 1 gift.) I think it's important that we do a little damage control with false doctrines going around. This one false doctrine alone that says, "You must have the gift of tongues," has caused a tremendous amount of damage. I would absolutely hate to be the person who started this doctrine, it's not Biblical. You cannot say that you believe the Bible fully if you believe this doctrine. I hope and pray that at least one person who feels condemned over this will find this and be able to free themselves from the lies and condemnation. One more thing I must add: Some teach that if you simply speak random utterings out of faith, that that is the gift of tongues. Anyone can speak gibberish my friends, that is not the gift of tongues. Gibberish is not to be confused with a gift of the Holy Spirit, that is blasphemy if you ask me. It is clear that not everyone will get the gift of tongues. To say that speaking out of faith is tongues is like saying you can make something up and speak out of faith that it's prophesy. That's how we get false prophets. Prayer: Dear Heavenly Father, thank you for this message and for all things. Please forgive us of all our sins as we forgive all those who've sinned against us. Help us to find and know our own true gifts given to us by your Holy Spirit. Don't let anyone feel condemned because they don't have the gift that someone else wants them to have, let them know what gift you want them to have. In Jesus name. A-men! Christian Forum God's Loving Kindness Praise Page
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Dave Munson		#1	[url]	[-]
Posts: 351 11/21/08 10:54	I really better be short on this one as this subject has got me riled up more than once. I have heard so many times the false doctrine espoused that if you do not speak in tongues then you are not filled with the Holy Spirit.(evidence) Such unbiblical nonsense is intolerable as it enslaves others to someones own personal misinterpretation of the truth. The gifts are meant to be used in harmony with each other and tongues is the least of these gifts but many in their desire for "excitement and thrills" have elevated it to almost God status. It is used by many as a standard of measuring the Spirituality of others with a touch of arrogance and elitism attached and it sickens me to see such. 1 Corinthians 14:27 If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret. :28 But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God. This directive of Paul is violated consistently and with lame excuse in far too many church services. The excuse being that "we are praying to God in heavenly language". Nonsense! They are titillating their sense of thrill seeking and that is all they do when they ignore God's directives. The gift has it's place it is true but that place has been perverted by those with "itching ears". I challenge anyone to show how the violating of God's Word brings any honor to God. I was once asked if I wanted the gift of tongues and when I replied that I have other gifts I was treated like a second class Christian. Such behaviour is ungodly at best and at worst I leave to your imagination. 1 Corinthians 12:30 Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret? :31 But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way. Paul here is speaking in what we know as the "negative indicative". That would read like this:Every one does not have the gift of healing, and everyone does not have the gift of tongues. How is it that you engage in this every time you meet together? Seek after the gifts that edify and there is a much better way. He goes on to speak of Love for one another being superior to gifts without love.(arrogant elitism) 1 Corinthians 13:1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. :2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing. 1 Corinthians 13:4 Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up. A good question to ask oneself is am I filled with pride about my gift/s? The best way is to seek the edification of others and build each other up in the faith rather then measure each other against each other using gifts. Seek the better way and spread life. Psalms 118:8 It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in man. =================================================== Check out our site at http://cbrefugeecamp.yuku.com/ -
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bold22.cbrefugeecamp		#2	[url]	[-]
Posts: 244 11/21/08 12:40	mr munson i beleive as a pentecostal that the evidence of the infilling OF THE HOLY GHOST is tongues. i do not beleive that you have to speak in tongues in order to be saved also when one speaks in tongues it should always be BY THE MOVING OF THE HOLY GHOST AND NOT just gibbering away. that is one reason that pentecostal are talked about because we have some that get fanatical and do things that are out of line with GODS WORD THE BIBLE
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Gilbert		#3	[url]	[-]
Posts: 203 11/21/08 12:47	It's ridiculous to say that everyone must have the gift of tongues to be saved. Its almost contradictory to our teachings. Most people do not have this gift. The purpose of people who do have this gift is to interpret the message to people who don't.
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Dave Munson		#4	[url]	[-]
Posts: 351 11/21/08 2:25	Bold I would ask of you this one thing. Show me by scripture where it says that "the evidence of being filled with the Spirit is tongues"? I will show you that it is "love". Psalms 118:8 It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in man. =================================================== Check out our site at http://cbrefugeecamp.yuku.com/ -
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lori		#5	[url]	[-]
Posts: 429 11/21/08 6:03	Okay, let's calm down a little. A lot of damage has been done by division over this issue. First, I will say that it is absolutely FALSE that you have to speak in tongues to be saved. You don't have to speak in tongues to be filled with the Holy Spirit either. Now, having said that, there are several scriptures that indicate that when new christians were filled with the Holy Spirit, that they spoke in tongues. Start with Mark 16:17 "These signs will accompany those who have believed: in My name they will cast out demons, they will speak with new tongues;". It is just one possible sign. Then go to Acts 2:4 "They were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues as the Spirit gave them utterance." Now, go to Acts 10:45-46 "All the circumcised believers who came with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. For they were hearing them speaking with tongues and exalting God." Finally, go to Acts 19:9 "And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they began speaking with tongues and prophesying." At least in the first century church, the evidence of the FILLING of the Holy Spirit, the baptism of the Holy Spirit which Jesus stated would come, the evidence of this was to speak with tongues. There are many who believe that this is the ONLY evidence, but that isn't true either. Acts 4:31 states "And when they had prayed, the place where they had gathered together was shaken, and they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak the word of God with boldness." The one truth that really exists about this baptism of the Holy Spirit is that NO ONE who received it was ever the same again. Peter became the powerful speaker he became due to the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Pharisee Saul became the Apostle Paul due to the baptism of the Holy Spirit. The Baptism of the Holy Spirit imparts something not given by salvation alone - it brings POWER! I know alot of people who "speak in tongues" who do not live with the power seen in when people were filled with the Holy Spirit in the first century. So, Bold, although you are pentecostal, not everyone who "speaks in tongues" is really filled with the Holy Spirit, not from what the Bible seems to indicate. And Dave, I would agree to a certain extent with your statement that the proof of being filled with the Holy Spirit is love. When we are filled with the Holy Spirit, our lives bear the fruit of love. Many people reading this passage (Gal 5:22-23) think that many different kinds of fruits are being listed, but the tense in the Greek seems to indicate that love is the fruit of the Spirit, and the peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control are the biproducts of the love. But I don't believe that fruit and evidence are exactly the same thing. The proof or the evidence that one has been baptized or filled with the Holy Spirit is POWER! Also, this "filling" is not a one time thing but rather something that is ongoing. We must be "filled" on a daily basis to have either power or love.
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Dave Munson		#6	[url]	[-]
Posts: 351 11/21/08 7:40	Referring back to the title of this thread Gift of tongues sole proof of salvation I would have to say that a changed life is a form of proof. The day of Pentecost in the book of Acts was the advent of the age of grace. No longer was the Spirit to dwell in the temple in Jerusalem but the people where to be the temple from there on. Before this the Spirit "fell upon" a believer as we see in the books of the prophets and much of the Old Testament but now He indwells each believer empowering them to walk in the Spirit and not fulfill the lusts of the flesh. He enables us to overcome. Psalms 118:8 It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in man. =================================================== Check out our site at http://cbrefugeecamp.yuku.com/ -
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bold22.cbrefugeecamp		#7	[url]	[-]
Posts: 244 11/22/08 8:32	mr munson... in all places where THE GIFT OF THE HOLY GHOST WAS GIVEN THERE WERE TONGUES AND PROPHRECY , IN THE ONE OR TWO PLCES WHERE IT IS NOT SAID TONGUES IT IS SHOWN THAT SOMTHING MIRACULOS HAPPENED. NOW i know that i received THE HOLY GHOST WHEN i was saved but THE BAPTISIM IS A DIFFERENT THING AS the pentecostals SEE HIM and THAT is what i am referring too
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Dave Munson		#8	[url]	[-]
Posts: 351 11/22/08 10:11	I understand your position Bold, I just do not agree 100 percent with all of it. I do not doubt that someone who is a believer and hasn't ever spoken in tongues is not filled with the Spirit. Every good gift is from God whether tongues is part of that or not and the empowerment is from the Holy Spirit and needs no evidence by any particular language. I do not deny tongues as a legitimate gift. I just do not place it in high regard. Psalms 118:8 It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in man. =================================================== Check out our site at http://cbrefugeecamp.yuku.com/ -
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garee		#9	[url]	[-]
Posts: 23 11/22/08 10:59	According to my opinion, knowing that tongues is a direct revelation from God and God, I believe, is no longer brining new revelations today… as during the 400 year silent period between the Old and New Testament. I would not personally trust in the theory that tongues are for today, I believe they ceased ,when all manners of new revelations ceased ,as of the last revelation given to John . Last Edited By: garee 11/22/08 11:02. Edited 1 time.
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bold22.cbrefugeecamp		#10	[url]	[-]
Posts: 244 11/22/08 12:48	in no case do i beleive that tongues are for salvation neither does the church i bleong to beleive that we do beleive that it is a gift that comes after one gets saved and receives THE BAPTISUM OF THE HOLY GHOST which is a different deminsion ( i guess that is what one would call it ) of the working OF THE SPIRIT OF GOD
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David		#11	[url]	[-]
Posts: 820 11/22/08 2:30	Wow, LOL... I had no idea this topic would get so hot. Thanks for all the replies. I know it's getting late so I'm going to go do today's devotion. Christian Forum God's Loving Kindness Praise Page
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lori		#12	[url]	[-]
Posts: 429 11/22/08 8:53	The issue of tongues does have the capability of dividing the body of christians who do believe the Bible, not to mention those who "call" themselves Christians who do NOT believe the Bible. Let's just try to look at this issue with a little bit of ALL of scripture. First of all, what did Paul say about the REASON for tongues? Look at 1 Cor 14:22 "So then tongues are for a sign, not to those who believe but to unbelievers;". This thought continues into verse 23 where Paul states "Therefore if the whole church assembles together and all speak in tongues, and ungifted men or unbelievers enter, will they not say that you are mad?" This is the largest error I find in most Pentecostal churches. They use "tongues" as a sign of the baptism of the Holy Spirit, but then use the "gift" in an error which goes AGAINST WHAT THE BIBLE TEACHES! At no point in time is the entire church supposed to be speaking in tongues, yet in EVERY Assembly of God, EVERY Church of God, and every other Pentecostal church I have ever visited, the same thing happens Sunday after Sunday, and they call this "the moving of the Holy Spirit". The Holy Spirit would not tell us to do something that the BIBLE TELLS US NOT TO DO! Now, lets back up and look at John 20:22 "And when He had said this, He breathed on them and said to them, "Receive the Holy Spirit." This was the day of the Resurrection, when Jesus appeared to the disciples (except Thomas) in the upper room. The words spoken just prior to this was "Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, I also send you". He was giving them the "great commission", telling them to go and preach. Yet just a short time later, he is telling them, in Acts 1:4-5 "Gathering them together, He commanded them not to leave Jerusalem, but to wait for what the Father had promised, "Which," He said, "you heard of from Me; for John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now." Allow me to play debater here. Did the disciples receive the Holy Spirit when Jesus breathed on them? Yes they did. We receive this same measure of the Holy Spirit when we believe in Jesus. So, Peter HAD the Holy Spirit, but he still went back to fishing a few short days after Jesus breathed on him. He believed in the risen Jesus, but still had no power. The baptism of the Holy Spirit is a different experience and separate experience from receiving the presence of the Holy Spirit when we place our faith in Jesus for salvation. Every Bible statement where people received the FULLNESS of the Holy Spirit, experienced Him body, soul and spirit, resulted in the expression of that POWER! This did not go out with the Apostles. The reason for the baptism of the Holy Spirit is that it is something the Father has PROMISED to make available to all who believe. I don't believe it is something that has to be "prayed through" or whatever, but we definitely should ASK the Father to baptize us with the Holy Spirit as He promised He would. For no reason other than the fact that it is by the POWER of the Holy Spirit that the Word comes to life IN US! We need that POWER! None, NONE of the Gifts of the Holy Spirit have ceased. The only time they WILL cease is when Jesus Himself dwells on this earth. There may not be new revelation of the scriptural nature, but the revelation of Jesus Christ is new every single day in my life. I need the gifts of the Holy Spirit to do all that Jesus Christ has called me to do. And so do you!
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